More Air?

[Goose]

I dont know if I can tell a difference between this set up and my home made ram air, but I'm sure once I get a cowl hood on, it should do the trick (will have to get a bigger element as well!)

I just need to get a valve cover breather now...

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m206/tg-goose/IMGP1806.jpg

Is there anyway to clean up all the vacuum lines and such underhood? Its so damn cluttered!

[383TA]

most you can remove and cap off, just check to see where they go before you pull them

[Goose]

sweet, less clutter is in my near future!

[allpontiacs]

Technically all you really need vacuum for is the distributor and brake booster. And you're never going to realize any real differences playing around with air cleaners...at least do a cam, or swap in a 350, or something.

[MonkeyWrench]

i would think open element under hood would be less power then ducked to out side air in front of rad. just because of the air temp diff

[89vert]

i would think open element under hood would be less power then ducked to out side air in front of rad. just because of the air temp diff

I agree

[Goose]

Well, I just ordered a cowl hood, so it should be getting lots of fresh air soon enough. For now tho, I've left the tubes from my ram air system in place, so its still getting somewhat of a "cool breeze" in the engine compartment...

I'm putting in a performer RPM intake manifold, (possibly performer RPM air gap manifold) and a cam, but I cant decide which cam to go with just yet...

[allpontiacs]

You've gone full dual exhaust, right? The thing with aluminum intakes is that they soak up heat in a big way. And your stock exhaust system likely had provisions for the exhaust crossover, which runs through the center of the intake. I can't understand why, but a lot of aftermarket intakes have that passage running through them. The best thing to do is yank the heads and have the crossover passages filled with aluminum (this also increases the effectiveness of the headers) and if possible, cut the crossover passage out of the intake (common practice on Pontiacs, which have a valley pan rather than sealing the valley themselves...the RPM Air Gap *may* be a similiar situation, but I know this won't be an option with regular SBC intakes). You can buy gaskets with built-in crossover blockers, but they're not nearly as effective as doing it the right way and they do burn through with time. Now, for this engine I would never go to that bother, I would only run the gaskets, but it's good info for the future. The Performer RPM will be a bit too much intake for your motor, but it'll work and it can always be transferred to a much beefier 350 when you get bored with this 305. As for cam, keep in mind that the way it's described it usually in a 350, bigger makes the cam milder and smaller makes it wilder. Since it's carb'd the only concern you will have with overlap will be for AirScare if it applies to you. Lift will be dictated by valvesprings, ideally you would be replacing them anyways when you do a cam, but I've gotten away with just running mild lift on stock springs before. Keep in mind of course, you may want to do something about your carburetion, at this point you'll need to mod what you have or go aftermarket.


Oh, as for the "cool breeze" in the engine compartment, it'll just induce bad turbulence. The ideal setup is an air cleaner inducting cold air that is totally isolated from the rest of the engine compartment. There is good reason why some cars have come with hood or fender vents. As heat extractors, they draw air through the engine compartment which helps turbulence quite a bit. If you are not going to build a plate and seal the air cleaner to the hood when you get cowl induction, you should consider installing heat extractors.

[Goose]

Air Care thankfully doesnt apply to me!
Everything going on this engine will eventually go over to a 350, except for the cam, i'll probably go more extreme in a 350 than in the 305. I havent gone true duals, just headers with a 2.5/3" y-pipe into the muffler with dual exits, but its 3" to the muffler, 2.5" out. (hooker 2055's and flowmaster cat back, no cat)

I've heard to only run the performer intake on a 305 and the RPM on a 350, but I was sort of keen on the AirGap system as well.But if I can get the performer RPM to run nicely on the 305, i'll probably go that route.
I'm going to rig the cowl hood to enclose the air cleaner from the rest of the engine as well (hopefully as best as possible.)
I wish they made a heat extractor hood for these vehicles tho, like this one:
http://www.themustangshop.ca/uploaded_files/part_images/orig/PartImage2194467870.jpg

I'll have to look into filling the crossover passages with aluminum, thats not anything i have even heard mentioned before, and I dont know if I need to get that far into it with the 305, But I definitly appreciate the heads up.

Any reccomendations for cams would be great too, but brand wise i'm leaning towards Comp Cams or a Crane Cam. Somewhat mild, but way more extreme than stock is basically what I am after.

[CamaroGirl]

hey goose, with what mods do you have? list all of em, i'll find one for ya

[allpontiacs]

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that duals are a pain to fit on 3rd gens. I personally like Comps Xtreme Energy line. I ran an XE256 in a Dodge 318 and it was great, didn't have to mod the valvetrain either. And I wouldn't worry about doing anything to those heads at all, better to worry about that stuff with a 350.

[Goose]

I was really liking the Comp Cams Xtreme Energy CS XE 262H-10, but I couldnt find it in their catalog. I got it from this website http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/carcraft325hp305.html.

I dont have many engine mods besides the following on the 305 LG4:
Open Element
Flowmaster 17233 cat back
Hooker 2055 Headers, No cat

this will soon include, as soon as it arrives at my place:
2" cowl hood
edelbrock performer, RPM or Airgap intake

[MonkeyWrench]

http://compcams.com/Technical/Search/CamDetails.asp?PartNumber=12-238-2

[CamaroGirl]

I was really liking the Comp Cams Xtreme Energy CS XE 262H-10, but I couldnt find it in their catalog. I got it from this website http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/carcraft325hp305.html.

I dont have many engine mods besides the following on the 305 LG4:
Open Element
Flowmaster 17233 cat back
Hooker 2055 Headers, No cat

this will soon include, as soon as it arrives at my place:
2" cowl hood
edelbrock performer, RPM or Airgap intake


i'd decide what rpm range you want that performer to work in, like, if you have a mid range intake with a high end cam, there's gonna be some noticable difference

[CamaroGirl]

reason why that crossover is in alot of aftermarket intakes, is b/c they all have to comply with california and that b.s-if goose sticks with #7501 air gap-non egr, it's got no crossover on it. but, if he has an egr valve he's got to get the crossover- best i can do with pricing is $278.79-basically go to mopac,way cheaper there.

[allpontiacs]

EGR has nothing to do with the exhaust crossover, it's mostly to aid in cold running conditions. In his position I would be tossing the EGR system anyways. As for the matching the cam to the intake, that intake isn't ideal for his engine to begin with. That would make for one doggy 305. The 262 would make it sound decently mean, but it might soften the lowend up enough to make it feel gutless until you get the revs up. I'd go with the 256, given what you have to work with currently. Especially since you don't plan to carry it over to a bigger engine. http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Search/CamDetails.asp?PartNumber=12-234-2 Should make it feel more gutsy and shouldn't need any other mods.

[Goose]

I was also looking at that comp cams 256 and I agree with you. I think its more suited to the power range I am looking for.

I was planning on deleting the EGR system, so i'm definitly going non-egr intake.

I WAS thinking to just go with the edelbrock performer on this engine, because going to the RPM doesnt increase torque (+1 ft/lbs over the non-RPM) and the increased Horsepower is in a higher RPM range than I would like it to be.
BUT:
Would it be worth it to run the regular Performer AirGap tho? Its got the same rpm (Idle-5500) as the regular performer, but it uses denser air and doesnt have any exhaust crossovers. I'm putting a cowl on, so I dont need to worry about fitting under the hood. This is sort

Would putting a carb spacer on the performer/performer airgap intake be worth it tho? Thats another thing I have been pondering...more power!

thanks for the price on the manifold, but I get employee pricing at Lordco too!. :sanchez:
Hopefully this should make this car run close to what I want, rather than the gutless bastard it currently is!

[allpontiacs]

The regular RPM and the RPM Air Gap aren't much different. However, the Air Gap doesn't have the exhaust crossover that I was talking about, and that combined with seperating it from hot oil would probably provide a slight real world benefit. Heat extractors would definetely make the most of that intake. Either RPM is not ideal for this engine but it's workable, and either will work great on a well built 350. If you want to spend the money, go ahead and get the Air Gap, it is definetely more money though. As for the regular Performer and Performer Air Gap, if you want to use this intake for a future build I wouldn't go with either of them. They will be a bottleneck when you go to get some more horsepower. I would not put a spacer between the carb and manifold at this point, it will probably do nothing except maybe hurt lowend a little, but if that intake doesn't have provisions for a spread bore carb (and I don't believe the RPM's do) you will need to run an adapter anyways. Unless you buy a Holley or some such, of course. A spacer more or less just increases plenum volume, and it's almost impossible to know what effect it will have on any particular engine unless you have it on a dyno. But on an intake that's already too big for that engine, increasing plenum volume will most likely not help you in any way. For the Performer, it could or could not help, but again...the Performer would work great now, but not on a bigger motor. That's your call.

[Goose]

ok, well thanks for the all the info Pontiacs, this definitly narrows down my choices.
I guess i'll get an intake that matches up to the 305, but since I still want to use the QJet, it looks like my only options are the performer or the performer airgap with an adapter...I definitly like the fact that the airgap doesnt have those crossovers!

[allpontiacs]

Just keep in mind that if you get the Performer, you'll be upgrading again when you build a meaner motor. If you're cool with that, then a Performer will certainly be ideal. The Air Gap Performer will probably be a good bit pricier than the regular Performer, and frankly it's probably not worth it. But that's your call also. Also keep in mind, at this level you should definetely be modding that carb! Stock tune will be nowheres near adequate.

[Goose]

I'll definitly have to be getting someone to help me tune the carb, thats for sure. thanks for the advice tho, i'll think i'll just go performer intake on this motor.

[MonkeyWrench]

i got a performer eps off my old sb i had in my truck. seamed ok

[allpontiacs]

Does your EPS have dual carb mount pattern? I've noticed the new ones only have square bore.

[MonkeyWrench]

i don't remember have not seen it in a while. i think it douse have dual pattern

[allpontiacs]

Interesting. The older RPM's used to have dual too, I still have a Pontiac Performer RPM with such. I have a hunch Edelbrock wants as few manifolds as possible to be able to use Q-jets anymore so they can sell more of their AFB knockoffs.

[MonkeyWrench]

got me wondering so i when and looked its just square bore pattern. must be the intake on my big block with dual.

[allpontiacs]

I got curious too, just went and looked and the Pontiacs still have dual pattern, go figure. Crazy Edelbrocks. I could've sworn the Chevs had dual mounting holes at one point too though. Easy enough to drill and tap yourself though, I guess.

[MonkeyWrench]

there is no material there to drill and tap i don't think

[allpontiacs]

Yeah shit you're right, that's actually kind of brutal. I guess Chevy guys really aren't supposed to run Q's...

[allpontiacs]

Ah they have an RPM specifically for Q-Jets. And it has both patterns on it...

[MonkeyWrench]

Yeah shit you're right, that's actually kind of brutal. I guess Chevy guys really aren't supposed to run Q's...

why bother when you can have a descent carb for pretty cheep now

[allpontiacs]

Q-Jet's are pretty decent, just nobody is willing to put the time into them. But I agree, for simplicity and ease factor, slapping a Holley on is best. But even then, Holleys and Demons are the only square bore carbs I'd ever run. For something that needs to be driven a fair amount, nothing compares to a properly built and tuned Q-Jet. For a toy, something that you want to work on sometimes and only comes out on nice days, fuel economy and low end driveability doesn't matter so much. I'll admit, I'm a fan of Holleys, I love working on them. But square bores in general are pigs on fuel.

[Goose]

Well I am definitly sticking with the tried and true QJet. Should have the intake (edelbrock 2101) and camshaft (CompCam XE256H) tomorrow, so hopefully can have installed by middle of May, depends how lazy I am. This is actually going to be a fairly inexpensive upgrade, the total was $300.38 with taxes for both.

I have one more question tho, what else do I need for the camshaft? Or is this still mild enough for the stock set-up?

[MonkeyWrench]

you need lifters and timing chain. timing cover gasket, water pump gasket, might as well put 160 T-stat in, and gasket for it, intake gasket,carb gasket and prob some extra antifreeze.

[Goose]

thanks mang

[allpontiacs]

ALWAYS use new lifters when installing a new cam, if the lifters are regular flat tappets. Never reuse either cam or lifters when one component is new. Rollers are a different story, either or can be replaced with no issues. Flat tappet lifters need to spin in their bores, during break in the cam and lifters wear together, hence the need for high rpm's to keep the lifters spinning while they wear together. As soon as one of those components is replaced they will never wear together properly again.

[allpontiacs]

Oh, by the way, since you're sticking with the Q-Jet... http://www.nastyz28.com/~ericf/tech/qtune.pdf

[Goose]

excellent information, thanks.