Bang for $$$bucks, whats the best crate motor?

[franchuk]

Bang for $$$bucks, whats the best new crate motor?


Gimmie an idea on a new crate motor for a third gen, and what your opinion for the best bang for the $$$, and what route to go later on...

I would also know what kinda tranny and so on..

thats right were talking about the full meal deal baby!
Tha FMDB!!!

attachment deleted by mr rogers

[77 zapper]

http://www.gmpartsdepot.com/store/images/12498827_large.jpg

this one! ;D

[IROC-Z]

build a aluminum head 383 stroker or just a solid 355. Or you can't go wrong with a modern retrofit Lt1 or LS1 6spd combo like me.

[79 Z28]

build a aluminum head 383 stroker or just a solid 355. Or you can't go wrong with a modern retrofit Lt1 or LS1 6spd combo like me.
agreed, but i suggest a 672 cid blown big block chevy, 1200hp ;D cant go wrong with that :P

[franchuk]

All i'm sayin is i'd like it to beat an m3

[79 Z28]

All i'm sayin is i'd like it to beat an m3
350 or 383 375hp will take care of them ;D

[Audio Terrorist]

http://www.gmpartsdepot.com/store/images/12498827_large.jpg

this one! ;D


hmmm a 572 eh that sounds kinda weak!

[79 Z28]

ya you need a 700+ cid mountain motor 8)

[93formula]

just to beat a m3? forget a crate motor, just add nitrous.

[Nin]

get a VTEC civic...i heard those things run 12's stock...the 60 ft times aren't the best but once the vtec kicks in at 9000 RPM you're gone!

[93formula]

get a VTEC civic...i heard those things run 12's stock...the 60 ft times aren't the best but once the vtec kicks in at 9000 RPM you're gone!


is that why you ran the 22.9? :P

[5.0 killer]

i got a freind with a 96 gsr integra w/ dohc v-tec 200 hp, cold air, header and flowmaster.
it runs high 14's v-tec kicks in at 5500 and he takes it to 8200 every gear, only has 145k and it smoke like a bastard :P

[93formula]

or you can buy one of my lt1/t56s ;D

[CamaroRobZ28beer]

Bang for buck = ZZ4 crate motor, 350 w/300hp nice and mild.

[79 Z28]

Bang for buck = ZZ4 crate motor, 350 w/300hp nice and mild.
too mild, needs to be 600hp ;D

[Drakar]

Question now is what is the full meal deal gonna be put in if you sold your vert??

[5.0 killer]

building a 350 is the only way to go, 400 hp is easy to acheive 8)

[93formula]

are we talking fwhp or rwhp? huge difference

[79 Z28]

are we talking fwhp or rwhp? huge difference
nobody talks rwhp except those lt1/ls1 guys :P ;D

[93formula]

thats cause were the only ones who can put down the rwhp when you guys brag about fwhp. :P ;D

seriously who gives a rats ass about fwhp??? you dont race motors you race cars so to me its the power you put to the ground that matters. id like to see a carbed sbc with 400rwhp and see what kinda drivabilty and mileage it has when compared to a efi setup.

[Drakar]

thats cause were the only ones who can put down the rwhp when you guys brag about fwhp. :P ;D

seriously who gives a rats ass about fwhp??? you dont race motors you race cars so to me its the power you put to the ground that matters. id like to see a carbed sbc with 400rwhp and see what kinda drivabilty and mileage it has when compared to a efi setup.


This flame war doesn't need to start because we all know and have read it over and over and it's tired and boring and wastes and whores up the place.

Carb will ALWAYS be cheap power, EFI will always make better MPG then carb for SAME power.

it' just doesn't matter !!!!

[79 Z28]

thats cause were the only ones who can put down the rwhp when you guys brag about fwhp. :P ;D

seriously who gives a rats ass about fwhp??? you dont race motors you race cars so to me its the power you put to the ground that matters. id like to see a carbed sbc with 400rwhp and see what kinda drivabilty and mileage it has when compared to a efi setup.
thats funny, my quote 290 rwhp car went faster n/a then everyone within 50 whp from that number, go figure ;D

its like measuring, everything mathematically is the most accurate from the source, as you go down the chain things lose their accuracy. do you measure your height with shoes on? do you measure your carb intake from the food you put in or the crap that comes out?

e.g. say you put lighter wheels on your car and put a CAI on and you gained say, 10 rwhp. ok so what did what? where did the hp come from? did it all come from the wheels? or the CAI? when you put a motor on a engine dyno, you see what the motor is putting out, after all thats where this majical torque and hp is coming from. all else attached is just instruments to transfer, multiply, and convert what is coming from the motor. objects that are on the car, like trannies, driveshafts etc. have a fixed enertia, and friction loss to the part type and mass etc. to be able to tell what is effecting what and where the power is coming from. you must first have a source measurement. in physics, things are not calculated form the answer forward, with non source measurements and values. otherwise the answer will not be accurate. basically you want to measure closest to the source as possible, the more variables, and equations,factors, and conversions etc the less accurate it becomes to tell source changes and fluctuations.

to sum up, ideally the best would be to do a source test and an end test to determine the most info possible. its just fwhp is taboo for most cuz its the hardest to do, the motor has to be out, and its alot more expensive to test. every form of racing uses engine test cells to determine the info, must be the way then, most accurate :)

[93formula]

yeah but like i said your not racing engines, your racing cars. in the end its the rwhp that moves the car. i just hate it when people brag about having 400hp cars when infact its more likely 340rwhp.

[79 Z28]

yeah but like i said your not racing engines, your racing cars. in the end its the rwhp that moves the car. i just hate it when people brag about having 400hp cars when infact its more likely 340rwhp.
why? the motor is what moves the car, put that motor into something else with a different combo, then it magically gains hp? no, its the hp at the motor thats important. put a big tranny and a high stall with big gear behind one, and it will dwindle the power down, and you'll never know how much it really had. i like to know what i actually got, and work down the line making changes etc.

[93formula]

::)

so you would rather brag about fwhp?? thats great. like i said fwhp mean jack to me.

you can have two identicle motors putting out 400fwhp and put it in two different cars with different drivetrains and see that the end result will be different.

if you race motors on the dyno go right ahead.

if i was buying a motor, then fwhp would mean something.

if you had two cars, one has 400hp, the other has 400rwhp. which is gonna be faster??

[79 Z28]

::)

so you would rather brag about fwhp?? thats great. like i said fwhp mean jack to me.

you can have two identicle motors putting out 400fwhp and put it in two different cars with different drivetrains and see that the end result will be different.

if you race motors on the dyno go right ahead.

if i was buying a motor, then fwhp would mean something.

if you had two cars, one has 400hp, the other has 400rwhp. which is gonna be faster??

well when your building a motor, like me, its never been run or tested before its the best way.

thing is, you can get the rwhp from the fwhp, thays the good thing, its not accurate the other way around. plus thne you knw what makes the changes, and what the motor likes, there is 10x more info on an engine dyno. you know what every molecule is doing.

on an engine dyno you get, VE%,ME%, FHp,lb/hr fuel usage,cfm motor ingests, a/f, motor vacume, incoming air temp, oil temp, water temp,BSFC wich is brake specific fuel consumption, which shows you how much BTU's of fuel energy consumption it takes to make 1 hp in the motor. (BSFC) provides the vital Brake Specific Fuel Consumption information required by serious engine builders. By comparing BSFC to industry standards you can more easily diagnose engine problems. Used in conjunction with exhaust gas temperature data, you can tune the engine to peak power with less danger of leaning it to the point of meltdown, intake air temp, BSAC readings, along with the tq hp. its a way more controlled environment. way more info, and it lets you tune the motor 100x better, safer too. also lets you know when your motor is reaching stress points etc.

man there so much more out there to know other then tq and hp. its a world of wealth in the dyno cell, its where all the hardcore racers and engine builders work their stuff. now im not saying chassis dynos are bad, they just have their place, they are good for comparing after the engine dyno has been done to see exact losses in the drivetrain/ chassis etc. its the only way really, otherwise its like shooting in the dark, besides rwhp doesnt determin how fast the car goes. a 400rwhp car with high stall gear, tire etc will kill a car thats a street 400rwhp with small diff, small drivetrain, small tire etc. no chance, i proved that with my car. cuz i had gear, stall etc with my 290 rwhp after everything was robbed and (no fuel) i still smoked everyoine in et's that was within 50 rwhp of me. its just not a comparision unless everyone is running the same car, same weight, same drivetrain etc. otherwise its not reasonable, and will miss lead you :)

[93formula]

you and i already had this discussion on msn a while back. i see your point of view. but from anyone else all i see is someone trying to brag about how much more hp he has then he actually does. to me rwhp is what should be bragged about, as were not comparing motors were comparing cars.

[79 Z28]

you and i already had this discussion on msn a while back. i see your point of view. but from anyone else all i see is someone trying to brag about how much more hp he has then he actually does. to me rwhp is what should be bragged about, as were not comparing motors were comparing cars.
well you cant compare the two because they are measured at totally different points down the line. when someone says this is how much hp my motor has, thats what it is, hp that comes from the motor. either way, the more fwhp the more rwhp so no matter. ill prolly put down close to 500 rwhp N/A this year ;D

[93formula]

yeah but people dont do that they go like i have a 400hp trans am or camaro.

and that bugs the hell outta me