spending some cash...

[theSteve]

Aiight I've decided to spend some money.

This is my car in it's current state (except for the lack of tint):

http://24.81.248.232/misc%20files/kmc3.jpg

The suspension is shot. I have chopped springs ( previous owner ), and therefore dead shocks. I am essentially a suspension newbie, but I want a nice system that will take me about an inch ( 1" ) lower than present ride height.

Basically I'm looking for someone to tell me what I need, what to buy, and how involved a process it is to install it. (ie. is it worth just paying someone to do it)

Thanks in advance :p

[theSteve]

cmon guys don't make me go to thirdgen.org and get told off for asking the same thing!!

i can see it now..

[some sarcastic jackass] "theres a search button for a reason, dumbass!" [/some sarcastic jackass]

[86 airborn]

couldn't tell you what to buy (ask shultzy) but I can tell you that it is all relativly simple and well with in your limmits if I gauged you right at the meet, plus there are afew of us local that whould be glad to help if you got stuck :)

[theSteve]

well ya i figured i'd be able to take care of it myself...

i just don't wanna go buying something and then have someone tell me that its crap 2 months down the road.

i know a lot of people talk about putting lower control arm relocation brackets in when they do a lowering job... something about it effecting the handling negatively if you don't do it. anyone know anything about this?

let me know...

[86 airborn]

I know you hit it on the head, and I also know Mike(irocNparts) was selling a set for a good price :)

[theSteve]

well maybe if mike would get his butt in here and put in his 2 cents, i might get somewhere :)

the lca brackets sound like something that need to be welded... or am i wrong?

[86 airborn]

most bolt it for alignment and then weld in for strength

[IROCNParts]

hey Steve
for suspension I would do eibach pro drop springs (1,8" drop)
then some nice KONI adjustable shocks
I do have a couple sets of the LCA Relocation brackets for $70
other than that a nice set of control arms, panhard rod, and you've already got great sway bars!

[iroc22]

Grab an IROC wonderbar while you're at it.

[IROC-Z]

Yes wonderbar is good. :)

[IROCNParts]

VUNDERBAR!
I have a couple
$60

[theSteve]

hey Steve
for suspension I would do eibach pro drop springs (1,8" drop)
then some nice KONI adjustable shocks
I do have a couple sets of the LCA Relocation brackets for $70
other than that a nice set of control arms, panhard rod, and you've already got great sway bars!


thanks for your input mike...

i had kinda set on getting some eibach drop springs, so i'm glad you recommend them.. my only concern was that i be able to get the car to sit about an inch lower than it currently sits (on the chopped springs).

as far as the koni's are concerned.. i've seen discussions about the special REDS and the sport YELLOWS and which are better for what. a quick look on the spohn website tells me that the yellows are more expensive... but what makes it so? my first thought would tell me to go for the yellows simply because they're classified as "sport". any thoughts?

if 70 bucks is a good deal on the lca brackets i'll prolly take those off your hands.. along with some installation advice. (like i said - i AM a newbie)

as far as the sway bar thing.. i know i've heard that GTA's had good sway bars stock.. but did it go the same for just plain ol' trans ams? mine's an 85... if that makes a difference.

i hadn't really thought about getting so involved as to replace the control arms, steering brace, and panhard rod.. but i guess while the car's up in the air and i have 2 days off work - i should probably look at just getting it all done. what are these 3 things gonna do for me as far as the feel of the ride?

-> P.S. would this best buy performance place i've heard so much about be a good place to go for all this stuff??

[Drakar]

With KONI I had a discussion on TGO about it most say it is awesome for AutoX, but I had I believe RED's on the street in my old GTA, just about lost teeth on the weakest setting.

I would say if you just plan on street duty with some strip/fun I would go for Bilstein HD's. Awesome all around shock you really can't go wrong with (ie no one will tell you they are crap 2 months later)

Where as KONI's you should really research, unless you like a harsh"er" ride.

[iroc22]

I believe on a 85 TA it should have the solid 34mm front bar and solid 23mm rear bar. Do you have a measuring caliper?

[theSteve]

i definitely should. but i don't.

So I guess i'll just bite the bullet and go ahead and buy the stuff.

I've been trying to find out whats the better option (coilovers or not)... but the only advise I can get is to try em both out. Unfortunately I don't know anyone who's done their suspension, so I can't really try anyone's out at all.

I figure I'll go get me Eibach pro kit (i've heard nothing but good things) and Koni adjustables, and I'll just leave the panhard rod and control arms and all that till later.

[Chickenman35]

Hope I catch you before you spend too much cash. Go to your local parts supplier and order these springs:

Moog 5662 fronts and Moog 5665 rears. Follow the installation instructions here:http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=200000

If you want to Autocross, go with the Koni Yellows, otherwise the Koni reds are fine. BTW, Koni's are meant to be installed with the settings set to minimun. They will be quite stiff for the first 1,000miles then can be reset if desired. Should soften a bit after 1,000 miles or so. Bilsteins are too soft for Autocross use.

Get the LCA's.

I've been Autocrossing\Hillclimbing and Road Racing for more years than I care to admit. Currently hold the SP3 Record at the Knox Mountain hillclimb and have one of the fastest ESP ( Autocross ) cars in Canada.

Not bragging...just letting you know that if I give some advice on suspension stuff ( No Drag Race setups though ) you can trust it. Have fun.

[Chickenman35]

Add to your shopping list:

1) Rear Lower Control Arms. For street I'd recommend the ones with poly bushings at both ends. Heim joints transmit too much noise and wear out quickly from all the muck and grime on the street.

2) Get a set of Global West " Del-A-Lum" lower control arm bushings. They are aluminium with Delrin liners. Don't bother with poly bushings such as Energy Suspension. A waste of time.

3) Get a good strut Tower barce. Will make a world of difference.

4) Get a good sturdy Panhard rod. Stock panhards flex!! Poly or Heims fine here. Not much movement in a Panhard so you don't have the issue of road grime wearing Heim joints.

There that should get you started. Have fun!! :)

[theSteve]

I won't be autocrossing... I'm pretty dang sure of it.

I just want a good sport suspension, and I don't want to be bottomming out all the time.

What makes the moog's different from eibachs? Is one stiffer than the other?

Also, when I get all the new equipment installed... what happens if the car is sitting too high? I think i've heard that the koni's have a ride height setting but isn't height something that the springs are really going to effect?

Like I said earlier, I do want to drop the car even further from it's present height.. about another inch or so.

I'll look into the control arms and bushings, and panhard rod, and I'm definitely getting an STB... I just didn't mention it earlier.

Let me know a little about the moogs if you can and about my ride height worries :P

[theSteve]

how necessary is it for a suspension / chassis rookie to get adjustable versions of the following, as opposed to the standard upgrade:

torque arm
wonderbar
panhard bar

?

[86 airborn]

no need with the adj. wonderbar

for sure adj. panhard, when you lower your car you need to change the length or your rear end will not be centered

adj torque arm is abit extreme for starting out in my view

Rich

[theSteve]

well i wasn't looking at getting a torque arm yet..little more than i wanna spend at the moment (on top of all the other stuff) i just saw it on a page and wondered what the deal with it was.

thanks for the advise, airborn.

[Chickenman35]

I won't be autocrossing... I'm pretty dang sure of it.

I just want a good sport suspension, and I don't want to be bottomming out all the time.

What makes the moog's different from eibachs? Is one stiffer than the other?

Also, when I get all the new equipment installed... what happens if the car is sitting too high? I think i've heard that the koni's have a ride height setting but isn't height something that the springs are really going to effect?

Like I said earlier, I do want to drop the car even further from it's present height.. about another inch or so.

I'll look into the control arms and bushings, and panhard rod, and I'm definitely getting an STB... I just didn't mention it earlier.

Let me know a little about the moogs if you can and about my ride height worries :P


The Moogs are stiffer than the Eibach...but not by a whole bunch. But they are a WHOLE lot cheaper.

Shocks have nothing to do with ride height as you suspected. The 5662's a a replacement for stock IROC springs but the Moog front spring specs out at around 600lb\in for the fronts. This is just fine for a street sport suspension. Nothing teeth rattling.

Trim the springs as I mentioned in the Hyperlink and you'll be fine. Just avoid the temptation to trim too much. You have about a 2 to 1 leverage ratio on the front suspension. 1\2" off the springs will lower the car by a full inch.

Rear springs are a 1 to 1 ratio of course.

[Chickenman35]

how necessary is it for a suspension / chassis rookie to get adjustable versions of the following, as opposed to the standard upgrade:

torque arm
wonderbar
panhard bar

?

None whatsoever. A Wonderbar is not adjustable. You can get them used for about $10. The stock factory piece that comes on IROC's and TransAms is more than sufficient.

Panhard Rods are not adjusted either ( for lenght ). You set the lenght to stock and leave it there.

Lowering a car does not require a Panhard rod lenght to be changed contrary to popular belief. The adjustment is there just to set the lenght the same as stock, IE Heim joints with heavy wall tubing.

If you look at the geometry of a properly designed Panhard Rod, you will get maybe a 1\4" movement side to side from Full Droop to Full Compression. That is why a Panhard Rod is so long. The longer the Panhard Rod the less movement side to side on suspension movement. Lowering a car one inch would have an insignificant affect on side to side axle housing movement on our cars. I've actually measured my car from full droop to full compression and that all the axle moved ...1\4" side to side. You can have that much slop in combined free play of the " C " clips, so it matters not a hoot. The real benefit to an aftermarket Panhard rod is that they flex less than the Factory piece which is a POS. Flexy Panhard rods are not good....velly, velly bad.


Panhard rods can be made adjustable for height as in Winston Cup cars. This affects the roll center and can be used to adjust handling. Totally out of the realm of street cars. BTW, the only reason that Winston Cup cars have an adjustable " Track Bar " ( Panhard Rod ) is that they are not allowed to have adjustable sway bars. It is better to adjust the rear balance with the sway bars but this is not allowed.

Adjustable Torque Arms. Yes for a serious Drag machine...not required for the street. The factory Torque Arm more than adequate for street use and Autocross. I would invest in a Poly Torque Arm bushing and Tranny mount though.

Save your money and put it into something like some good tires. Tires make the biggset handling difference of any single modification.

[86 airborn]

I agree with everything but the panhard, lowering my car resulted in my driverside tire moving 1 inch out causing rub on the drivers side and ample room on the passengers side. interesting to hear about the winston cup cars though :)

Rich

[IROC-Z]

just put a huge wing on the back and a SPOON sticker on the front and you'll be flyin' :P

[theSteve]

Save your money and put it into something like some good tires. Tires make the biggset handling difference of any single modification.

well i already have 2200 dollar tires... firestone firehawk sz50-ep's.. I'm under the impression that they're good.. and even if they're not.. well i paid 1000 bucks for em (woo 55% discount), so they're staying! :D

thanks for the info, that's pretty much exactly what i was lookin for. Basically I found adjustable versions of a whole bunch of crap (including those 3) and wanted to know if it was necessary or not.

The whole trimming of the springs thing scares me... seems like something i could screw up easily :p

[theSteve]

Well... my first lot of parts is now on order.

I went down and checked out Best Buy Performance in Burnaby... I already like it better than mopac. The guy (ross.. russ.. something like that) had never met me before or anything, but he took the time to sit down with me and run all the prices and talk about the equipment.

We got my KONIs ordered (yes, I went with the koni's.. the whole "stock replacement" idea of the moogs scared me away), and I get the rears in 2 weeks and the fronts in 3. The eibach kit is also coming in 2 weeks... and finally, my Hotchkis Strut Tower Brace.

I'm going to hold off on the rest of the parts until next paycheque.. I already spilled over onto my credit card with this purchase, and although it'd be easy enough now, I'll just buy the rest later.

On a side note, on my way home, my car sprung a MEAN tranny fluid leak. The shit was running out like no tomorrow and I ended up putting 4 litres in the car on the way home (stopping to top it up as I went). It was all dripping down onto my exhaust pipe so there was smoke behind me for miles. (if anyone saw a black t/a travelling south at extremely low speeds on the 99 with a roostertail of smoke - that was me ::)) I'm hoping it's just a hose down there... I think it is, but by the time I got home, I was to worn out from getting in and out of the car and filling up the dang fluid in the sweltering heat that all I wanted to do was flop on my new comfy office chair.

thats the end of my story.. i'll keep yous updated :)

[86 airborn]

glad to hear it was just a hose buddy

[theSteve]

believe me.... i'm glad too.

everythings fixed now, drove to work today and everything was fine. 3 weeks less a day till my parts arrive. i can't wait!